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December 27th Short Story Discussion: Hills Like White Elephants
Hills Like White Elephants by Ernest Hemingway (1927)
Rightio people, get down to it. What do you make of the story, what do you take it to be about, did you enjoy it, have you read much of hemmingway, what's your literary breakdown of the piece, both from the reader's side and writer's?
I'll get my points up later.
Also, this thread should keep us going for at least a week, but the point about this round is learning how long it takes for all of these to settle. Four days is all a poll really needs. We got no votes on day five. Keep on suggesting stories if you can, and the new poll won't be going up until after the new site. If you've any large points to make about the story, essay-like writings, save them as a document just in case we do return to ground zero with the new forum. Also - really do go into the story here people, don't be afraid of posting more than three sentences!
I thouigt It was as exciting As The Old Man And The Sea... Kinda of sad in a way.. I was suprised there was so much diolouge. Black meets white no grey glass is half empty theory not half full. People telling you what you want to hear does she really buy it? It also reminded me of Casablanca in a way, but without Sam. But all in all I guess white sandy hills looking like a white elephant is kind of a nice visual .
I thought The Old Man and the Sea was far more exciting than this.
Without the dialogue, there would not have been a whole lot there. The dialogue in this is Hemingway dialogue to a tea and, I think, the main focal point of the story. The tension between them is remarkable even when you don't understand what operation it is she's having. All signs point to abortion but he doesn't quite shout that out, and what's this about letting air in? That kind of threw me for a loop. It is an abortion she's having, which he claims is perfectly simple, and so of course, she would rather he just stop talking altogether because the truth is that it isn't at all perfectly simple.
Were this another of Hemingway's classics, I might have more to say. I'm afraid I see this story as perfectly simple as the man in it sees having an abortion. Sure, there must be more to it, but I can't quite relate. I prefer Hemingway when he's talking about bullfighting and boxing, or writing of young boys, which he seems to do better than almost anyone. As far as this story goes, where the focal point is the dialogue between man and woman, I think he pulled that off as good at times and better at other times in The Sun Also Rises. This story almost seems like it could have been a chapter of The Sun Also Rises, the way the dialogue is. Separate characters, aye, but it has a familiar tone.
I never fully understood why this story was so anthologized and praised. As I said elsewhere, it did not stand out to me in Men Without Women. It instead fit in very well and was great, yeah, but it did not intrigue me personally as some of his other stories have.
For the 20's this is an intense story. I agree that it's pretty obvious that he's asking her to get an abortion. Since those were highly illegal in the 1920's there is already a transgressive edge to the story. And certainly it's power beyond that is in the dialogue. It's sort of a quick snapshot of the vacuous life of this couple. The guy's sort of an insensitive dick, basically- oversimplifying the procedure, the importance of the pregnancy, and the impact that all of this will have on their lives. I like how you get hints of Bret Easton Ellis, AM Homes, or other writers who would later use this idea of revealing a lot about characters through these sort of mundane conversations.
The reader picks up pretty quickly that these two are not going to last as a couple, with or without the abortion, and that either way, she is going to be the one who is damaged. Her character seems to recognize this as well, especially in places like where she mentions that she has known people who have had the procedure done. Though she doesn't say it, you get the feeling that the things she has seen are not quite as rosy as what the fella is predicting. Also, for such a short story, there is a lot of great visual imagery and you really get a sense of place from just a few scant details. All in all, a very modern work!
Lots of people say that the story’s about abortion. The word’s not mentioned, but the man seems intent on suddenly pressing the subject of an operation.
"The beer's nice and cool," the man said.
"It's lovely," the girl said.
"It's really an awfully simple operation, Jig," the man said. "It's not really an operation at all."
The girl looked at the ground the table legs rested on.
"I know you wouldn't mind it, Jig. It's really not anything. It's just to let the air in."
It definitely seems to be a big problem in their relationship, at least from my point of view. Hemmingway offers no narratorial judgment, just lets the characters speak.
The girl looked at the bead curtain, put her hand out and took hold of two of the strings of beads.
"And you think then we'll be all right and be happy."
"I know we will. Yon don't have to be afraid. I've known lots of people that have done it."
"So have I," said the girl. "And afterwards they were all so happy.
Hemingway once said, rather famously, and quite possibly self-referentially in his book Death in the Afternoon, (a non-fiction about bullfighting):
Which has come to be known as his “Iceberg Theory”. In essence he’s saying we can communicate our message as writers through subtext to the reader. Much as he does throughout the book, using bullfighting as a front to comment on all forms of art, in Hills Like White Elephants Hemingway never uses the word “abortion”, and even if we don’t assume that to be the subject of the conversation between the American and Jig, it’s the subtext and elicited emotion that lie at the crux of the story. Those emotions don't change whether we assume the brittleness between them to be from Jig's pregnancy or something else - which I think is exactly Hemingway's point.
I do want to say, I don't think this is the greatest story ever written, but I do think it's a perfect example of Hemingway's minimalist style. He doesn't use big words, but he evokes big emotions, and there is some fantastic atmosphere in the piece, considering how few words are used when it comes to the setting. It's a hot, arid day in the middle of some desert valley in Spain. The trainstation - well, who can't visualise it? I think that's especially the charm of this piece, that reading and visualising the station makes me, and I'm sure other writers, want to document it's dry hot beauty themselves.
Along with that is worth mentioning a couple of observations Jauss made in an essay about point of view in fiction. How Hemingway remains completely objective in but two or three places throughout the whole piece, leaving us witnessing the two character's arguement from the position of an eavesdropper rather than from inside their heads. Hemingway drops tells, as Caligula mentioned, leaving the piece open for interpretation. Which is, of course, one of the greatest strengths of minimalist writing in general, and Hemingway's specifically.
Like Caligula said, again, you don't feel much that the man is convincing Jig to have an abortion because it would be some terrible blow to their love for each other, and you don't feel that Jig is agreeing because of her love for the man. They both seem resigned to have the abortion and there's a sense, at least for me, that as soon as the baby is gone there'll be nothing left keeping them together. Even so, this is simply reading the piece from the angle of an abortion, which it would be fair to say it's about, but again I want to say that what really counts in the piece is the play between them both, the symbolism (White elephants - the hills, the idiom, that the man had never seen one, etc.) and the charming way in which the emotions are conveyed. That's what writing is about, the humanity of actions, rather than guns blazing and swords slicing.
I mean, I could go on, but I'd rather discuss things than state my views. I really like the story, as I said, it's not the best ever written, but it is undoubtedly very good, and one well worth studying, and reading. I'd definitely agree with Caligula, that, I'm going to use the word progressive, rather than transgressive, but it is very forward pushing considering the context it was written in.
Okay, I'll give a brief exposition of the elements, and then later post replies to some of the points made by others that I disagree with. Mine will be split into sections, and I've limited it to a few words a section so it'll actually get read, although I could have -- and have in the past -- written several pages just on the few sections I am covering.
The Characters
The male is referred to only as "the American" in the story, which Hemingway does intentionally to provide a sense of distance between the character and the reader. This is contrasted with Jig -- the character whom the story is about -- who is referred to by an affectionate nickname. The relationship between the two is alluded to from their introduction, where Hemingway uses the phrase "the American and the girl," showing us that there is no filial relationship between them; however, given the rest of the story, it's evident that there is a romantic relationship.
The Setting
The setting is an essential part of this story, and here Hemingway shows his true genius as a writer. From the first paragraph, a contrast has been established, one that is very telling later. The side of the valley the characters are on is portrayed as desolate, nearly lifeless; while on the other side of the station, there is the verdant panorama of the river, trees and fields of grain.The contrast between the two and the actions of both Jig and the American in relation to this contrast play an integral part in the conflict and resolution of the story.
Another thing to consider is the train station itself. It is in between Barcelona and Madrid, basically in the middle of nowhere, but goes either way. This itself, when taken as a literary device, is useful in understanding the conflict of the story.
The Conflict
There are three conflicts here: that of the naive Jig in her inner struggle to make a decision regarding "an awfully simple operation"; that of the American regarding the same operation; and the external conflict between Jig and the American, also regarding the operation. An argument could be made that there is also a tertiary conflict between the clashing personalities of the naive Jig, and the manipulative American.
Resolution of the Conflict
On the face of it, none of the conflicts appear to be resolved, but again Hemingway shows his genius as a writer. The crucial moment is when the American takes the baggage from the dead, lifeless side of the station to the lush, lively side. The baggage itself is symbolic of the baggage Jig is carrying around inside her, and that they were moved to the side of the station that faces the verdant scenery of the valley is all one needs to make an inference that the conflict has been, at least momentarily, resolved.
Ok, I think that's enough or no one will read it. Anyway, those were just a few of my thoughts off the top of my head, arranged into sections. I had to refrain from going into minute arguments over word choice, language, tone, and all that other stuff that only people like myself with a hard-on for writing would care about. Maybe I'll say more later when my fingers recover from all this typing.
Without the dialogue, there would not have been a whole lot there.
Ahhhh, how wrong you are. See my post above this one for just a bit brushing the surface. While the dialogue is important in this story, it is only one of the essential ingredients that make this story so powerful.
I never fully understood why this story was so anthologized and praised. As I said elsewhere, it did not stand out to me in Men Without Women. It instead fit in very well and was great, yeah, but it did not intrigue me personally as some of his other stories have.
This is possibly the greatest short story Hemingway ever wrote. That is why it is so anthologized.
This is the first Hemingway I've read so I have nothing to compare it to, but I enjoyed it very much. So Corellion mentioned the Hill symbol –
(White elephants - the hills, the idiom, that the man had never seen one, etc.)
Any others?
My favorite thing about this story was its style. I loved how he didn’t clarify or input any extra information about the characters or their situation.
It does make you feel like you’re sitting at the next table pretending to read a newspaper and listening in on a conversation you weren’t suppose to. I had a feeling through most of it of dread. I wanted to know want they were talking about. I wanted to know their relationship. I didn’t want them to leave before I figured it out.
Like Corellion and Caligula said, the relationship between the two doesn’t seem exactly happy. It feels almost finished. Almost. Once I’m sure they were very happy, but things (I don’t think just the abortion) got in the way. I think that the American was being sincere when he kept telling her everything was going to be peachy, but the girl obviously doesn’t believe him.
Another thing I wondered (which may be nothing but just to put it out there), was how he was referred to as The Man, while she was referred to as The Girl...... Seems like girl gave her a sense of naïve-ness, a bit of raw immaturity. It made the man seem older than her without ever describing either. The fact that he is so obviously the one with the rose glasses, with the la la la I can’t here you attitude, seems contradicting. The Girl, the one he’s trying to cheer up, is containing herself for his sake. She tells him to please please please please please please please stop talking, all for his sake. She is clearly the brave one of the two.
I read this as a couple each in their own way, trying to keep the other's spirits up in a grim situation. I think it's easy to relate to, and for its length, it carries a wonderful load of emotion. The emotion in the characters is repressed, but very much there. Great short story no matter how you look at it.
Also, just for the curious, a white elephant is something that costs more to maintain than it's worth. In the context of the story, the American feels this way about the pregnancy, and it's possible by the end of the story that both feel this way about their relationship.
Also, just for the curious, a white elephant is something that costs more to maintain than it's worth. In the context of the story, the American feels this way about the pregnancy, and it's possible by the end of the story that both feel this way about their relationship.
Hmmm, I did look it up Loren and I didn't try to connect the two at all. I just assumed that it didn't have anything to do with it. I see it though, I see it hard. So thank you.
Any others?
Well, I'm lazy, and I'll go into my own in a minute, but well worth reading is this,
which I've quoted below.[INDENT]
The short story “Hills Like White Elephants,” by Ernest Hemmingway, is about a young couple and the polemic issue of abortion. Though the word “abortion” is nowhere in the story, it is doubtlessly understood through Hemmingway’s powerful use of two literary elements: setting and symbolism.
From the first paragraph the setting immediately introduces the tense atmosphere that will surround the rest of the story. The story takes place in Spain in the late 1920’s. The setting is described as follows:
The hills across the valley of the Ebro were long and white. On this side there was no shade and no trees and the station was between two lines of rails in the sun. […] The American and the girl with him sat at a table in the shade, outside the building. It was very hot and the express from Barcelona would come in forty minutes. It stopped at this junction for two minutes and went to Madrid.
The couple is in the middle of making a drastic decision where there are only two choices, two directions, just like the two rail lines that pass by the station. The openness and loneliness around the railroad station imply that there is no way to back out of the problem at hand and that the man and the girl must address it now. The heat turns the scene into a virtual teakettle, boiling and screaming under pressure. The landscape that encompasses the station plays a fundamental role in the conflict of the story through its extensive symbolism.
When the girl sees the long and white hills she says that “they look like white elephants.” As she observes the white hills she foresees elatedly the birth of her baby – something unique like the uncommon white elephant. The color white symbolizes the innocence and purity of her unborn child. She also admires the rest of the scenery:
The girl stood up and walked to the end of the station. Across, on the other side, were the fields of grain and trees along the banks of the Ebro. Far away, beyond the river, were mountains. The shadow of a cloud moved across the field of grain and she saw the river through the trees..
The fields of grain and trees represent fertility and fruitfulness, which symbolize her current pregnant state and the life in her womb. The Ebro River also represents life, as it germinates the fields. Just as the girl appreciates the panorama and its connection to her unborn child the “shadow of a cloud,” which represents the abortion of the fetus, overcomes her happiness. After an exchange of words with the man she again looks at the scenery, but this time in a different way, as the following sentence illustrates: “They sat down at the table and the girl looked across the hills on the dry side of the valley and the man looked at her and at the table.” The man is obviously in favor of the abortion, and everything he says is an effort to persuade her into it. As she considers his point of view she looks at the dry side of the valley, which is barren and sterile, symbolizing her body after the abortion. The man and woman continue arguing and stop for a little when she says, “Would you please please please please please please please please stop talking?”
He did not say anything but looked at the bags against the wall of the station. There were labels on them from all the hotels where they had spent nights.
The American apparently wants this abortion because he wants to keep his current lifestyle. The bags with all the hotel labels on them are symbolic of his vivacious spirit. If the woman goes ahead with the pregnancy, he would have to settle down and raise a family, which would mean forgoing his youthful desires of seeing the world.
The story ends with the couple expecting their train’s arrival in five minutes. There is no resolution and there is no decision stated regarding the abortion. Hemmingway’s interweaving of setting and symbolism helps him juice each sentence to provide maximum detail. This story was not only intended for the pleasures of reading, but also though provocation. Hemmingway has intentionally left the readers to conclude for themselves what will happen next.[/INDENT]
You think I'm wrong that the focal point of this story is the dialogue? If you were to take the dialogue away, what would you really have? The few things you've mentioned and a few others--not a whole lot.
I wish I could multi-quote because I want to reply to your synopsis as well, which was very academic and well written. I'm sure Caligula would have given it an A-, at least. On the characters: Though I surely felt it, I didn't take notice of the contrast between the nickname Jig and the nickname American, simple as it seems now.
The contrast at the station is something, sure. It's a damn good setting, and top notch even for Hemingway, whose settings are always well built. But this isn't enough to make this piece my favorite. Not from Hemingway. I kind of expect a good setting and take it for granted in his writing.
The baggage: I think the baggage was probably just a part of their leaving the station. Of course he took it to the train, where else would he take it? Sure you aren't thinking too much into this part of the story? As for this being a symbol of this being partly resolved, I don't see that at all. I think part of the beauty of this story is how little is really resolved, especially from the girl's point of view.
I feel that equally impressive devices, settings, and dialogue have existed in Hemingway stories that both I have felt more passionate about and that Hemingway has felt more passionate about. I think it's more a question of favorite than best, and the subject in this story just doesn't interest me like some of his stories have.
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