I got a question:

salamander
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What exactly is Spitzer apologizing about? In today's society, how is this an issue?

 

Not saying I personally don't think it is - I believe that marriage is sacred.

 

I just find the logic behind this guy's resignation and the skewering of his reputation - given the previous responses of our society to people like movie stars or Presidents in similar situations - to be odd. 

 

What really is at issue here? Is it that he cheated on his wife, or that he paid for sex? Or both?

And... how is it that this is any less embarrassing than one of our presidents getting frisky with an intern?

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Mexicreatin
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Re: I got a question:

He's probably really apologizing for getting caught. and for being an idiot.

  I think people are also more offended with the idea of a whole prostitution ring being involved as opposed to an "office romance". not only is he a cheating bastard, but he's a pitiful one that cant even get the ladies on his own.

i really couldn’t care less either way, and for those of us who done live in NY you really have to ask yourself "For every Spitzer news story you hear, what actual news are you missing?"

 

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Caligula7
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Re: I got a question:

Well, he seems to have brought a lot of this shitstorm on himself.  Part of his problem is that, for his entire career, he has been Mr. "Law and Order, tough on crime, leave no stone unturned, uber-morality-police" type.  One of his big targets was prostitution.  He really went after prostitution rings, men who solicited prostitutes, folks who laundered their money, everything.  Now it turns out that not only is this guy having sex outside of his marriage, but he's sleeping with prostitutes and supposedly offering them extra to have sex without condoms and all this crazy stuff.  He just looks like the biggest hypocrite on the face of the planet right now.  There's no coming back from that shit.  

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Mricpx
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Re: I got a question:

$4300 for this girl?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23600504/

Yeah, I guess I could see that. 

 

 

Also, she's from Jersey.  High five everybody. 



EyesLikeHoles
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Re: I got a question:

Well for one thing when you hold that office you represent the people, you cant be going around getting blown by whores.  It's also illegal, although I personally dont think it should be.  Also, damn, that chick is pretty hot.



damien_mayfair
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Re: I got a question:

$4300? she better be doing backflips...



labelleza
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Re: I got a question:

I wouldn't pay to watch her do backflips. 



TopGun
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Re: I got a question:

The other matter besides the sex is the money.  Apparently, he spent about $80,000 at this one escort agency, and there seems to be some questions about the source of the money.  He was moving cash around so much that the bank tipped off the IRS about something unusual.  It's one thing if he was just hiding it from his wife, it's another if he was using public funds.

 

As far as I'm concerned, prostitution should be legal.  I have no problem with this guy going to a hooker to get his knob polished. Although I assume his wife and 3 teenage daughters might have an issue with that.

 

But as a prosecutor and DA, how many lives has this guy ruined?  How many people has he chased and put on trial?  How many marriages has he blown up by catching some working class guy who was getting laid by a whore?

 

I love to see hypocrites fry in their own grease.  This guy deserves any public shame and humiliation he’s going through.

 

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JKabol
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Re: I got a question:

i wonder if she'll write a book someday and make millions.
i wonder if the attention will get her a music deal.
probably. and probably.

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Adelheid
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Re: I got a question:

The late-night TV hosts are really milking this little scandal these days, and it's not all that funny anymore.  Yawn, America...



salamander
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Re: I got a question:

 I get the money part and where the money came from. I get the illegality of what he did. But that's really not what he's being skewered for if you listen to the court of public opinion. 

What's being gasped at is the scandal itself - the cheating, the whores, etc. Across the board this guy is getting his ass handed to him on an issue of morality - my question is simply: who decides what is moral?

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sweetpollypurebread
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Re: I got a question:

Wouldnt it be wonderful if people stopped caring about how "moral" our leaders are, and more about how well they can take care of things?

history serves as evidence that its the prudes who screw things up

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nathaniel parker
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Re: I got a question:

salamander wrote:

 I get the money part and where the money came from. I get the illegality of what he did. But that's really not what he's being skewered for if you listen to the court of public opinion. 

What's being gasped at is the scandal itself - the cheating, the whores, etc. Across the board this guy is getting his ass handed to him on an issue of morality - my question is simply: who decides what is moral?

[b]HE[/b] decided what was moral when he went after people for doing this very same thing. He set his own benchmark. [i]That's[/i] why he's getting shit on now.



nathaniel parker
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Re: I got a question:

sweetpollypurebread wrote:

Wouldnt it be wonderful if people stopped caring about how "moral" our leaders are, and more about how well they can take care of things?

history serves as evidence that its the prudes who screw things up

You got to care to some degree how moral your leaders are. otherwise you end up with yahoos like Hitler, Stalin and the rest of that endless list. There's got to be some middle ground where you get both someone moral and someone that can handle things. But I ain't gonna hold my breath for that person to show up anytime soon.



salamander
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Re: I got a question:

nathaniel parker wrote:

[b]HE[/b] decided what was moral when he went after people for doing this very same thing. He set his own benchmark. [i]That's[/i] why he's getting shit on now.

 

I would call that the best response I've heard - that the reason he's getting all this flak is due to his own grandstanding. I do still think there's a certain amount of hypocrisy on both sides... continuing on and on and on. Makes sense to me, none the less. 

Still doesn't answer my other question: Who decides what is moral?

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Mricpx
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Re: I got a question:

salamander wrote:

Still doesn't answer my other question: Who decides what is moral?

 

The church decides what is moral, and then regular people distort those views so it can actually be applied to real people besides mormans. 



Oberon567
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Re: I got a question:

There is absolutely NO way I am allowing the Church to decide what I deem moral.  Basically because I believe stealing from people and molesting young boys are both immoral.  Thats just, you know, my personal opinion...



nathaniel parker
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Re: I got a question:

techinically, the church believes stealing from people and molesting young boys is wrong as well.

 



Oberon567
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Re: I got a question:

actions speak louder than words.

 

and while those are both somewhat facetious examples, what the Church actually dictates as moral behavior is not much better... why is someone else's god determining how i live my life?  Pluralistic humanism! That's the way to go...



salamander
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Re: I got a question:

Oberon567 wrote:

There is absolutely NO way I am allowing the Church to decide what I deem moral.  Basically because I believe stealing from people and molesting young boys are both immoral.  Thats just, you know, my personal opinion...

 

Mine too.

But, just for the sake of playing the proverbial Devil's Advocate - and I do mean that, not "this is my not-so-cleverly-hidden-opinion": Who says we're right?

Who determines that stealing is bad? There is a small country near Jordan where the men believe stoning a woman for adultery if she's been raped is the right thing to do! How do we tell them they're wrong? How do we tell the molesters they should have their balls cut off... if we don't have a source to reference?

tee hee. 

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Oberon567
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Re: I got a question:

One could argue that their morality, too, is being governend by a religio-cultural ideology.  Hence its own capacity for fallacy.  And hence the need to move towards a system of morality governed by pluralistic humanism.

 

The inherent problem with such a system would be that as religio-cultural values have fully infested every facet of our lives, how could we expect ourselved to actually construct a set of moral ideals that are not, at least tacitly, rooted in personal beliefs.  It is dman near impossible.  Yet as  a government that is supposedly separate from the state, it is imperative that our government, when formulating laws, attempts to do just this. 

 

"A professorship of theology should have no place in our institution." --- Thomas Jefferson

 

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." --- A treaty with Tripoli, drafted under George Washington in 1796, signed by John Adams in 1797

 

 



Oberon567
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Re: I got a question:

Richard Dawkins and other atheist scholars and philosophers have detail;ed and discussed humanist ways of constructing concepts of morality and legality that are not dependent on religious beliefs, and even while numerous studies including those done by Mensa have indicated that there is an inverse relationship between intelligence and belief in God, which is to say that the smarter you are the less likely you are to believe in God, the current climate of our country demonized people who express even an agnostic never mind an atheistic point of view, and so no one takes, at least not politically, takes Dawkins or others seriously.  It is their assertion that many politicians, in America and elsewhere, throughout history, were deists, agnostics or atheists, but for fear of public opinion pretended otherwise. 

 

"The immense majority of intellectualy eminent men dis-believe in Christian religion, but they conceal the fact in public, because they are afraid of losing their incomes." --- Bertrand Russell



jd_james_427
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Re: I got a question:

There is no such thing as morality.  It is an idea, a man made construct.  Just like God, love, happiness...etc.  It is an unnatural created idea which we like to believe in to make ourselves feel all warm and fuzzy inside. It also gives us a perfectly good excuse to hate anyone we dislike.  It's a win win.

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Because I love. I, who am not loved in return. I have a love that is far deeper than the empty gasps and convulsions of brutish coupling. Shall I speak of her? Shall I speak of my bride? She has no eyes to flirt or promise. But she still sees all. Sees and understands with a wisdom that is god-like in its scale. I stand at the gates of her intellect and I am blinded by the light within. How stupid I must seem to her. How child-like and uncomprehending. Her soul is clean, untainted by the snares and ambiguities of emotion. She is untouched by joy or sorrow. I worship her though I am not worthy. I cherish the purity of her disdain. She does not respect me. She does not fear me. She does not love me. They think she is hard, and cold, those who do not her. They think she is lifeless and without passion. They do not know her. She has not touched them. She touches me, and I am touched by God, by destiny. The whole of existence courses through her. I worship her. I am her slave. No freedom ever was so sweet.



jd_james_427
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Re: I got a question:

JKabol wrote:

i wonder if she'll write a book someday and make millions.
i wonder if the attention will get her a music deal.
probably. and probably.

 

A book multi-million book deal is already in place and some of her songs posted online has already made millions.

 

So yes and yes.

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Because I love. I, who am not loved in return. I have a love that is far deeper than the empty gasps and convulsions of brutish coupling. Shall I speak of her? Shall I speak of my bride? She has no eyes to flirt or promise. But she still sees all. Sees and understands with a wisdom that is god-like in its scale. I stand at the gates of her intellect and I am blinded by the light within. How stupid I must seem to her. How child-like and uncomprehending. Her soul is clean, untainted by the snares and ambiguities of emotion. She is untouched by joy or sorrow. I worship her though I am not worthy. I cherish the purity of her disdain. She does not respect me. She does not fear me. She does not love me. They think she is hard, and cold, those who do not her. They think she is lifeless and without passion. They do not know her. She has not touched them. She touches me, and I am touched by God, by destiny. The whole of existence courses through her. I worship her. I am her slave. No freedom ever was so sweet.



xec8
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Re: I got a question:

This thredde iz so full of rilly deep questions!



salamander
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Re: I got a question:

Morality is right along the lines of Love and Happiness - intangible, but certainly some thing noticeable in either its presence or absence.

It's an extreme example, but if I steal from you or commit physical violence against you, some moral code you possess - be it the basest, say self-preservation,  or something more advanced like "justice" - will most likely appear. Better than that, if I steal from someone you love or commit physical violence against someone you love, morality is even more likely to rear it's head. 
Like here: 
http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0638,hentoff,74473,6.html

Neither religion nor faith in some higher being are necessary to develop a moral code - I don't think any philosopher is needed to tell us us this. The difficult questions arise when I personally have to determine whether or not some moral code is valid or not. The subject of the above article has his own moral code - and whether or not he's religious is irrelevant because he believes it. But I think we can all be sure of this: The sane women involved believed that his view of morality is a bit "off."
In a world free of religion, there will still always be people who will take what they want - hence, the creation of "law" - it's in the absolutes that the details become difficult to decipher.
I believe this because I believe each of us - anti-Christ or anti-Atheist or Anti-Religious, etc. - has his/her own moral code. Rejecting one belief means accepting another - it's a basic law of existence. You reject one thing because you do not believe in it - but you believe that it is untrue, and that something else is. That something else could simply be: "That other belief is untrue."
Where that moral code came from or how we learned it is impossible to completely divest ourselves of, because the "damage has been done" as the saying goes. How we react to what we've learned is obviously the only controllable characteristic, but even that is at least partially determined by what we've learned and how we've learned to change ourselves.
I guess the real question I'm asking is: Do we have a common measurement by which all mankind can agree? If not, either someone is right and someone is wrong, or everyone is wrong. We can't all be right - or conflict would not exist.  

 

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salamander
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Re: I got a question:

 Like... what's the actual crime in this?

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-dryice11mar11,...

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